Biola University
What new challenges have emerged to the family in the past few years? How is the family doing today versus in the past? What biblical principles must Christians keep in mind when thinking about the family today? These are a few of the questions we ask Jim Daly, president of Focus on the Family. He discusses radical shifts in the modern family as well as gives practical ideas on how to pass on the faith and engage others in the culture who view the family differently.
Jim Daly is president of and host of its daily show, heard by more than 6 million listeners a week on nearly 2,000 radio stations across the U.S. The show has been honored as Program of the Year by the National Religious Broadcasters (NRB). In March 2022, he celebrated his 33rd anniversary with the ministry.
Episode Transcript
Sean: What are the biggest challenges facing the family today? How can Christians best navigate these challenges? And what biblical teachings are most important to keep in mind today when it comes to families? These are some of the questions we're going to explore today with our guest, Jim Dalyâauthor, president of Focus on the Family, friend of Biola. I'm your host, Sean McDowell.
Scott: I'm your co-host, Scott Rae.
Sean: And this is the Think Biblically podcast brought to you from Talbot School of Theology, Biola University. Jim, you've been the president of Focus on the Family for two decades. How? I mean, that's an incredible thing. So, I've seen the family shift in my own family, but talk to us from, kind of, a 30,000 foot view perspectiveâhow you've seen the American family, and maybe beyond, kind of shift during that time.
Jim: Yeah, it just kind of makes me laugh thinking, wow, it's been that long. [laughs] Now, there's so many things, Sean, Scott, that are happening. It's, you know, when you look at itâŚlet me give you this data point, because I think this really paints the picture. Get this. I was born in â61. I'm much older than you guys, but in 1960, 88% of men [ages] 25 to 35 were married. 88%, 25 to 35. Today, that number's 30%.
Sean: Wow!
Scott: Thatâs quite a drop-off.
Jim: How about that for a mindblower? I thought it was big, because when I looked at it in 2005, it was 50%. So, the real dip in that demographicâthese are men aged 25 to 35âreally went down after 2005. 2005, the number was roughly 50%. Today, it's about 30%. So, it shows you family formation is just not occurring. People are living together. People are having children together without marriage, et cetera. But the idea of getting married, kind of the traditional family, has now become kind of the minority family structure in the culture. And all the science is showing you that is not good for the culture in the future.
Scott: I think some time ago, the stats were that you got the over 50% threshold of single adults being head of households. I mean, that was probably a decade ago, when that stat came outâ
Jim: I think it's a combination. Yeah, I believe the numbers I have are correct, but, you know, typical, two-parent biological mom and dad home represents about 40% of households now. All other typesâsingle parent father, single parent mother, stepfamilies, et ceteraâthey represent 60% of households today. So again, it's kind of breathtaking, especially when you look at people like Brad Wilcox at the University of Virginia, a sociologist who basically has done incredible research to reinforce the fact that the best place for a child to grow up is in an intact two-parent family. They just excel at most things. Now, I came from a single parent home, and for the single parents listening, there's hope. There's something called Jesus. [laughs] And when Jesus can get involved in a 15-year-old's life, like in my case, it turns that tide. But think of how many people don't fall into a relationship with the Lord and are out there scraping and fighting just to get by. They don't finish high school. They don't finish college. They don't have a future in so many ways. So, that's the irony of what's happening with the family. Back to your point, Sean, the decline has been steady, is becoming more rapid, and I think more of an issue today than ever.
Scott: So, Jim, what are some of the most common issues that your team has asked to address, kind of over and over and over again? Are there a couple of those that sort of rise to the top?
Jim: Yeah, I think you could probably close your eyes and just think for a minute. What do you think those would be? And you're probably going to hit it. For usâin 1977, when Dr. Dobson started Focus on the Family, coming out of USC right there in Southern California as a child development expertâthe big issues were strong-willed children, discipline with kids, how to keep a marriage generally together, those typical things. Bedwetting, thumb sucking. Those were the letters or the phone calls we would receive from parents, how do we deal with these issues? Today, it's gender dysphoria, depression, suicidal ideation. I mean, the catastrophe of children today is so much higher. And so, that's what we deal with. One of the most common things that we deal with here at Focus on the Family now is, what do I do with my LGBTQ child or my grandchild, in that case? So, you know, they become more complex issues, typically around sexual orientation, sexual identity.
Sean: That's really helpful. I was talking with Cliff and Stuart Knechtle recently and asking if the questions have changed over the decades they've been ministering on college campuses. And Cliff's done it since the 80s. He goes, the questions haven't really changed, but the amount of depression changes how people process it. So, I could see that within the family being such a big issue. When I deal with students, a lot of the LGBTQ and sexuality questions are some of the top questions I get in Q&A sessions as well. Now, I'm curious, biblicallyâand I wonder if this is the same now as when Focus on the Family startedâwhat are some of the key biblical teachings that you think are, just, most important for Christians to keep in mind as we think about the family?
Jim: Yeah. And let me just wrap that other question up with something very critical, in my opinion. I've really done a lot to reach out to the LGBTQ community. I have a great friendship with one of the leading attorneys in that group that helped bring about Obergefell. We've had a great relationship and friendship. And I would just say that the thing for us as Christians when we're dealing with sexual orientation issues and all the otherâŚis just a steady hand of staying the course of biblical truth. Don't get upset. This isn't a battle that you need to win. The Lord cares for these people. It's not a super sin. You know, those of us that are heterosexually driven have our own issues when it comes to attractions of the opposite sex. So, I think we need to remain calm and know that God has a sexual ethic for us. And that's what He's requiring of us, no matter what our deviation from that is. And that way, it gives us more of a heart for those people that are going through this tumultuous attraction that many of us don't even understand. So, just to make that statement, and I'm sure there's many people on college campuses, including Biola, that are getting a little confused about how do we think about this as a Christian, would be my guess.
Sean: No, we don't have anybody confused here, just for the record, Jim. But go ahead.
[laughter]
Jim: By the way, I love Biola. Barry Corey is a good friend, and what a wonderful Christian university president he is. I wish my two boys would have gone there. I couldn't talk them into it, but almost. But getting back to the family questionâŚso, I think here's the big message when it comes to what can we learn out of the Scripture about family. The Bible is full of examples of dysfunctional family. [laughs] It's like, it's the norm. Adam and Eve. Adam blames Eve for disobeying God. Cain and Abel, of course, the sibling rivalry where somebody ends up dead. Joseph and his brothers. You know, his brothers sold him into slavery. These are great examples of the pain of family. It was never perfect. I think even the Lord, you knowâŚI think of the Lord as the father of Adam and Eve, and his teenagers kind of went off the deep end. And so, I think one of the things to calm us down as Christian parents particularly is, things are going to happen. Our children have free will. What we have to do is nurture that core in them about why we believe what we believe and then live it, right? And I think that's so critical to who we are as Christians.
Scott: Jim, let me play the skeptic for a moment, if I might.
Jim: Of course.
Scott: Throughout the Scripture, you know, Jesus was single, Paul was single. You know, single people are made in the image of God in the same way that married people are. In fact, Paul sometimes says that singleness is preferable to marriage. I think the term he uses is âmore expedient.â And yet, you know, lots of folks claim that the American church has made an idol out of marriage and just missed the boat on serving single adults well. Well, what would you say to that allegation? Is there any merit to that?
Jim: [laughs] I'm laughing because just SundayâŚI don't know if this is the Lord bringing this back around to my attention. But to your question, just Sunday in our church, David Grothe, our associate pastor, was preaching up at New Life here in Colorado Springs. He was talking about how we make an idol out of marriage. I was taking some of that pretty personally, because he knows I'm in town. He knows I go to the church. So, half the time I thought, he's talking right to me. You know that pastor that says, âDo you have a problem with alcoholism?" [laughs] So, anyway, this is kind of funny you should ask that question, because I did spend a lot of time Sunday afternoon thinking, okay, why am I feeling so sensitive about this? Here's the first thing. Yeah, Paul makes all those assertions that, you know, it's easier to stay single. I think any of us that are married would say, yeah, it would have been easier to stay single. But at the same time, God honors marriage. He created us for marriage, too. And it's almost like we've got the reverse going now. There's like this thing that somehow, somebody's lifted up marriage as an idol, and now weâve got to tear that idol down. I'd be very careful about this, because both are fine. That's the point that Paul's trying to make. If you're married, stay married, and make sure that you live in your marriage in a Christlike way. Honor your wife, honor your husband, et cetera. If you're single, hey, it's going to be a lot easier. Here's the thing that I've learned. I think both theologically as well as practically, marriage does something really interesting for us. We enter into marriage thinking, oh, this is bliss. She's so much like me. And then you quickly find out at some pointâa year down the road, two years down the road, the seven-year itch, as it's knownâman, this person really irritates me. And what somebody really wise once told me, the guy that did our marriage counseling, he said, "Marriage is a way to make you more like Christ." Okay, how do you do that, Lord? To make us more selfless so that we can become more like Him. I think it's one of the most powerful tools that God has in His arsenal, if we're healthy-minded about it, to get us to a better place spiritually. And it's true. You can succeed as a single in the church, and you should. Singleness is fine, as Paul said. It's great. It's actually easier in my opinion. But if you get married, what's the purpose of that marriage? I think it's to learn to be more like Christ in a very intimate relationship where you have to become selfless. And that works against our flesh like nobody's business. And I think marriageâŚone of the reasons in the church we're having such great divorce rates right now, although it's coming down, but one of the reasons it's historically been high is we're so me-focused, even as believers, that the culture has seeped into us that we don't even know perhaps the purpose here is to become more selfless like the Lord, and that He's teaching us these thingsâhow to give, how not always to get your way, how to be a companion to the person who is the closest to you and how to lay your life down for her. It just does not come naturally.
Sean: I know at the heart of what you do at Focus on the Family is to help parents and grandparents pass on their faith to their kids and to their grandkids. I've been studying this, thinking about this, writing on this for decades. And if I was going to sum up what I think the data shows, and you can't make this too formulaic, but if there were three steps, one, it would be, model a faith that kids find attractive. If you're not modeling, it doesn't matter what you say. So, model. Second, build close, intimate relationships with your kids. Intimate relationships, warm relationships. And third, talk to your kids about faith issues. Teach them how to think about the world from a Christian perspective. So, modeling, relationship, and then spiritual conversation. Agree, disagree, add anything? What do you think are the core components that you want to instill and equip parents with to pass on their faith?
Jim: No, that's well said. I'm ready to move to the next question.
[laughter]
Jim: You said it so well. I think part of the battleâŚthis is what's really hard. Again, this is why marriage and parenting both work to make us better, if we approach it with that attitude. I was just talking to my two boys the other day. One is 24, the other is 22. And so, they're adults now, and we're having a chit chat and talking about life and faith and all those things. And they have a firm faith in Christ, but there's some things in the church that they really are troubled by. And as we're talking about it, one of the things I have tried to do as a parent is to open that invitation to say, where am I failing? Where am I being a hypocrite? Because I may not always see that. I need your eyes on me to know where my blind spots are. But to invite your 17, 18, 20 year old to do that, youâve got to have some courage, because they know you. I think in some ways, they know you better even than your spouse, to be honest with you, because your spouse and you have a different relationshipâcourtship, all that. Youâve got the history. Then your kids come along, and they grow up, and they've seen everythingâsometimes at a little bit of a distance, but intimatelyâin your home. Your issue with anger, your issue with whatever it might be, prevarication, twisting the truth slightly to get what you need, watching, perhaps, you manipulate your spouse or their mother or their father. So, they get a really weird, insightful stadium seat to your life. And so, that's one thing I would add to that, is invite them to talk with you, to help mentor. One of the best things my 24 year old, Trent, said to me the other day, he said, "Dad, one of the things I'm enjoying so much right now is how our relationship has changed from parent-child to peer to peer adult." And he goes, "You're always going to be my dad, but I just feel like we can talk about anything." And back to your point, Sean, about that relationship being at the core. The biggest concern I have with some of the Christian parents that I've encountered through Focus is we do expect a formula that if we do A, B, and C, we get the output D. It does not work that way, everybody. There's predictive models. You want to set a good environment. You want to take everybody to church and learn the truths of Scripture. Those are all good things. But if you're not living it, you're not being a witness for your kids first and foremost, they're going to smell that. They're going to know it. They're going to know it's not true for you. And that's going to be a really difficult journey for them, because now they're unsure what to believe. If what you say is you are a Christian and you believe these things, but they don't see you living itâŚnot perfectly, but not living it steadily, and reinforcing that, and when it's not perfect to confess that. One of the best things I ever did as a parent was to always say to my boys, I'm sorry. I made a mistake. I was too aggressive when I talked to you about that. Or, I said something that was too sharp. I remember the first time I did that to my five-year-old, Trent. He smiled at me and I said, âWhy are you smiling?â He said, "I didn't know parents had to apologize." But man, keep that going. And I'm no perfect parent, but what do you appreciate? Do you think, you know, Jesus, when He talks about the golden rule, did He intend that to be pointed at the parent-child relationship as well? I think so. Treat your child the way you'd want to be treated. Right? And I think your relationship will be so much stronger when you hit those big issues that may come in the teens or the 20s. You need the relationshipâto your point, Seanâso that you can still be an influence in that child's life without being the decision maker.
Scott: Yeah, I concur on that. My kids are late 20s and early 30s. And it's a pretty sweet place to be as a parent, where you connect with them as peers. It's pretty nice.
Jim: Yeah, I enjoy it.
Scott: Jim, one of the things that is new, I think, that parents face today that I didn't face when my kids were growing up, and, Sean, you probably didn't face much either, is the prevalence of screens and technology and social media, not to mention things like artificial intelligence. How do you help families navigate this maze of technology and the options that they have to make decisions about it for their kids in the midst of, just, huge cultural pressure not to do anything about it?
Jim: You know, generally what I love about Focus, and what attracted me to come to work here out of the business community when I worked at International Paper, and why I wanted to apply my career here if the Lord wanted me to do that, this is just a resource treasure trove to help marriages and help parents. I mean, the stuff here at Focus is so deep and so wide. For example, Plugged In, which is an effort that we've had, oh, I think for 30 years. So, a team will look at all the movies, the music, television, streaming, video game reviews, so both parents and the child user can get information on what, from a Christian perspective, these games have. What is positive about them, what's negative about them, what's dangerous about them. We get about nine million people a month that go to Plugged In to check out what's going on with that genre of product. That's one of the best resources that we have to inform parents. I remember the boys and I heard so many donors to Focus say this to me. But when the boys were like 13 or 14, they'd say, we'd like to go to this movie. And Jean, my wife, would say, what does Plugged In say about it? No, we don't want to read the Plugged In. But it just informs you. It doesn't tell you not to go. I mean, it just says, here's what you'll encounter in the content. Here's the game content, if you're going to allow your child to do the gaming. Getting to the screen time, there's a lot of broadcasts that we have in our archives that people can access through the app, but we've probably done seven, eight shows on screen time with kids with different experts. The best advice that I ever received and that I deployed with Trent and Troy, our two boys, was to delay that smartphone as long as you can.
Sean: Amen.
Jim: So, probably about 11, the boys started saying to me, you know, my friend John has a smartphone, Dad. When am I going to get my smartphone? Yeah, yeah. And I'd say, you know what? Let me talk to Mom and I'll get back to you. And then six months would go by.
[laughter]
Jim: They'd say, did you talk to Mom? Oh, I did, man. Sorry, I forgot. We're just going to wait a while. Oh, okay. And then it'd be like 12 and a half or 13, and then it would pop up again. Trent didn't get a smartphone until 17. I think that was one of our biggest victories in our upbringing of Trent. Troy ended up at 15 and a half because he got his permit earlier and was driving, needed directions, all that kind of thing. But I think that was one of the best pieces of advice that I received. Just delay it as long as you can. And in that time, you're trying to give them wisdom and teach them. You guys know this, but here is the quintessential truth about parenting. Don't tell them, don't do this. Do that. You've got to teach them why. Why do I not want to look at porn? Tell me why, because it actually is kind of attractive to a 15-year-old boy, a 13-year-old boy. It's not, because here's the damage that will be done. You've got to help shape the worldview of that preteen, teenager. That's where a lot of us as parents fail, because it's a lot of work, to have that open discussion, to talk about those things, and to shape the character rather than saying, don't do this. Do this. And that's all they hear.
Sean: Jim, if you were talking to a young married couple right nowâand we have quite a few who listen to our podcastâin this cultural moment, or even not just for this cultural moment, what encouragement would you give to a young married couple?
Jim: Well, God bless you. You got married. That's great. I think that's wonderful. I think stalling marriage till laterâŚand as a parent, again, of 20-somethings, I'm kind of guilty of this. Let's get them through school. Then they can get married. Then they have the kids, our grandkids. Yay. Dr. Al Mohler, I think, has been really brilliant on this, like he is on so many things. But Al has talked into the culture about Christian households, particularly Christian parents. Encourage your kids to get married early. If they're having that desire, it's going to be a disaster if you're trying to delay that until some milestones are met. So, if they're ready to go at 20, 21, let them get married. Encourage it. Encourage that person that they want to date and marry. I think that's great advice. And I think the other thing, too, is family formation. Jean and I, we made a mistake. I mean, we waited until we were in our late 30s to have Trent and Troy. And one of the biggest things I tell the boys is I regret not having more children. And they could see it on my face, and they always smile and say, really? We didn't convince you not to have more kids? But it's so true. And I think Jean and I got a little carried away in the 80s and 90s with all the, kind of, Revelation predictions that the world was coming to an end, kind of what we're hearing right now. And I don't know if that's going to happen, but now I have two boys, 24 and 22. One's pre-med, the other one's writing and wants to be a history teacher, do some other things. They're on to their productive lives. If that fear would have gripped Jean and I and we said to ourselves, we can't raise kids in a world like this, not only would we be deprived of an incredible journey of being a parent to these wonderful boys that we love so deeply, but everything that's going to flow from it, which I'm hoping someday will be grandkids. But don't let fearâŚto that young couple, to your question. Don't be gripped by fear. Do what the Lord wants you to do vocationally in your family. I would start younger. I would have more kids. And don't let fear dictate to you what you can and cannot do. The Lord wants you to replenish this earth and to bring children into the earth if you can. Some people medically canât. I get that. Then mentor other couples. But all of it is good. It is good. Singleness is good. Marriage is great. And having children is wonderful.
Scott: Jim, project into the future a little bit, if you would. And I'm going to ask you to put on your prophetic hat, if you would.
Jim: Not one of my gifts. [laughs]
Scott: Well, we won't hold you to the biblical standard for a prophet. But what kinds of issues do you think are upcoming for the family? You know, things that are coming down the pike in the near future? And just, sort of, give us a heads up about what you think is on the horizon.
Jim: You know, we're working on a theatrical release right now. We're trying to get the voices in the culture. We haven't nailed all of them down yet. But we're trying to get people like Elon Musk, and Jordan Peterson and others who are making observations in the culture that are quite profound and, indirectly, quite biblical. When Elon Musk talks about the birth rate disaster that we're facing right now, he's looking at it as a scientist, as an engineer, somebody who says, man, if we don't have children, it's the end of the species. That's an interesting observation. I would say, as a Christian, absolutely. Like, the enemy is depriving us of the joys and the blessings that God wants to bring into our lives. And we are taking the bait. We're taking the bait with the deconstruction of family, not getting married, like we mentioned at the beginning of the program with the marriage rate for 25 to 35 year old men plummeting from 88% in 1960 to 30% today of that age group. I mean, that's devastation. I would say that the lack of the birth rate, the downward spiral of the birth rate, is far much more of an existential threat than the climate. Really. And I don't know where everybody's at on the climate issue. But if we don't reproduce, we don't have the human race. Not only that, let's just takeâŚthis is kind of fun. I'll let you come back at me on this one, but I've often thought of, okay, I'll take my Christian hat off. Let's just go Darwinism. You want to go evolutionary biology and Darwinism on me? Okay, let's talk about that. Why in the world would people that believe this have any kind of inkling in their Darwinian brain that somehow they shouldn't have children? That works exactly opposite of evolution, because evolution would say to us, we reproduce. That's what we gotta do. Every species has that built into them. Reproduction, reproduction. So, you're actually proving the point that maybe Darwinism isn't real, because you're not living by it. And I just, you know, I think it's a God-given thing to want to have children, to get married, have a family, et cetera. Not everybody, but many, many people. So, I think when we look out into the future of family, I think we're at an inflection point with all the data. The good thing for Christians is the data is showing that the best environment for children, the best environment for women, the best environment for men, is in an intact, biological mom and dad family. All the research is backing that up, whether it's Brad Wilcox at University of Virginia, or secular scientist Melissa Kearney at MIT with her book, The Privileged Two-Parent Family. I'm going to interview her next week. I'm looking forward to that. But the data is there. So, as that family type continues to decline to some point, just stay strong. All the rewards are going to be there. I think the spiritual blessings will be there, to where maybe we get back to the early Roman church where they look at us and say, wow, you've got something we don't have. How do we have a family like yours? How do we have a marriage like yours? And we have a golden opportunity, in the midst of all that chaos, to say, it's because of Jesus. And then we get to open that up to those people that are suffering in chaos.
Sean: Jim, I think that's a perfect note to wrap up on, in a sense of, just, saying in our broken culture where there's a lot of hurt, the things you mentioned earlier that people are calling Focus on the Family for, for Christians to live differently, at which people look at us distinctly. And if we have Christian familiesâŚwhich people even that aren't Christians understand there's a difference between a mom and a dad, and we need both. We yearn for that security. We yearn to know and be known. And so, I think we have an opportunity right here. I love that you framed it that way. And we've interviewed Wilcox here, his work is fantastic, that shows that people who marry, as a whole, are happier. People who have kids are happier than those who don't. People who have more kids are happier. Like, there's so many countercultural things that in this moment we can stand against that, which is actually for the flourishing of our society. So, appreciate the research that you're doing there, and just leading Focus on the Family for two decades. I'll bring it back full circle and remind us it's been two decades. But also really appreciate your posture, the way you engage people even outside of the Christian fold.
Jim: Well, I so appreciate that. And you know what? That's the bottom line. Be Christ-like, make sure you're in the fruit of the Spirit, not the fruit of the other guy, and press forward.
Sean: Jim, thanks so much for coming on. Really, really appreciate it and all you're doing at Focus on the Family. This has been an episode of the podcast Think Biblically: Conversations on Faith and Culture. We've got programs online and in person in apologetics and theology, and of course in marriage and family. We'd love to have you join and be a part of it. To submit comments or ask questions, please email us at thinkbiblically@biola.edu. If you enjoyed today's conversation, please give us a rating on your podcast app. Every single rating helps, and we'd appreciate it if you'd share it with a friend. Thanks for listening. We'll see you Friday with our weekly Cultural Update. In the meantime, remember to think biblically about everything.
